In this week’s episode, we welcome Naava Carmen, fertility acupuncturist and founder of The Fertility Support Company, who is on a mission is to tackle the underlining causes of infertility both in natural fertility and assisted conception. We’re also going to be speaking with Dr. Yau Thum Fertility Specialist at The Lister and the pair have found an interesting working relationship we wanted to discuss. Dr. Thum has done loads of research into reproductive immunology, Natural Killer Cells, recurrent miscarriage, and failed implantation. Dr. Thum starts off with a bit of a science lesson for us, explaining the ins and outs of the immune system, why it’s so important, and its role with regards to implantation and miscarriage. Naava shares with us her insights into how Chinese medicine can assist in the medical treatment of immune issues and with Dr. Thum the way in which their two approaches complement one another. Whilst complementary therapies are becoming more and more accepted within westernized medicine, there is still unfortunately a lack of research to support their use. Dr. Thum explains how in China, IVF is a blend of westernized and Chinese medicine which achieves very good outcomes. Next, we delve into the fascinating and controversial area of natural killer cells. Dr. Thum discusses the difference between the NK cells in the blood and the uterus. From his research and the research of others, he believes that there is no difference with regards to using choosing peripheral blood or uterine cells when investigating the immune system. It is worth noting that at present the HFEA considers immunology testing an add-on where there is no robust evidence to show that it can improve the live birth rate and that there is evidence to show that the add-on is unsafe. Dr. Thum recommends that patients considering this treatment discuss this in-depth with their doctor to understand any benefits and side effects. Naava shares with us the importance of patients asking the right questions of their doctors and finding out why their clinician may have decided on a particular treatment. Particularly making sure that your doctor has a good rationale for why they have chosen a specific drug for you. Naava recommends that if you are considering Chinese medicine that you start working on this 3 months before treatment. Naava also trains fertility acupuncturists and Chinese medicine practitioners. You can find a Fertility Support trained acupuncturist via Naava’s website and you can get in touch with Dr. Thum here SOCIAL MEDIA  Naava Carmen The Fertility Podcast Kate Davies  Disclaimer: The views expressed in the podcast episode are those of the guest experts and not necessarily those of the podcast hosts. When making decisions about using Chinese medicine in conjunction with IVF treatments, please seek advice from your clinician before commencing treatment.